This is my first post here, I landed on this sub while I was doing my due diligence about marging lending on Bitfinex. FYI: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5ow8gw/warning_do_not_lend_on_poloniex/dcmp7w1/. For the record: In the 20 months that we have had P2P lending markets available, we have not had a single default. Poloniex Completes JUST Token Sale and Will Open Trading For JST; Poloniex is releasing a token launching platform-LaunchBase; Tutorial for Participating in the Poloniex LaunchBase JST Token Sale; CLAM Lending Pool Loss Updates. I tried reading the FAQ on poloniex but there's not much info there, so I'd like to ask a few questions about lending on poloniex: Is there a minimum amount you have to invest? You should have wait polo's answer before shitposting here. One is something happening to the exchange itself. Over 0.2-0.5% on BTC a day is definitely worth risking money on, but I don't expect rates to stay terribly high if things settle with ETH and alts in general. Poloniex is a US-based cryptocurrency exchange that promises to offer maximum security and advanced trading features. You might be interested in Bitcoin if you like cryptography, distributed peer-to-peer systems, or economics. I don't know whether this has happened yet, but it's still a risk one needs to know about. On the other hand have volatility (the value of your BTC or your alts going down). Lending Fees. USDt lending doesn't seem supported by the bot. Poloniex.com uno de los portales mas importantes de intercambio y respaldo de criptomonedas. An Introduction to Lending on Poloniex. Click on "Export Complete Lending History" in the top right corner 4. Poloniex allows users to lend their cryptocurrencies to other users who want to trade on margin on the platform. Yes, I have outstanding loans and some pending (that I cancelled due to losses), but the total amount of all pending, outstanding and cancelled (overall lending balance) is 0.81 bitcoins. Trade Bitcoin, Ethereum, and other perpetual with up to 100x leverage on Poloniex Futures. Then there is the risk of a borrower defaulting on a loan. There are 3 categories on the site and they are; Margin Trading, Exchange and Lending. Hi, simple question: If not defaulting is guaranteed, then why can't we (the lender) simply cancel the loan anytime (with the current fees), and let … These tokens are issued and redeemed by FTX and can be traded on Poloniex. In this video I'm just outlining my current reasoning and process for lending BTC on Poloniex. Main Page Poloniex scammed 1800 BTC from users on the lending platform and paid back next to nothing. Poloniex lending. Poloniex Review: Key Features. Buy, sell, and trade Bitcoin (BTC), Ethereum (ETH), TRON (TRX), Tether (USDT), and the best altcoins on the market with the legendary crypto exchange. Bitcoins are issued and managed without any central authority whatsoever: there is no government, company, or bank in charge of Bitcoin. Imports are not available in a demo account! This system automates the lending of coins. Using ten times leverage, for example, when the market moves by just 1% the trader will take a gain or loss or 10%. The rate of interest is determined by a set of parameters that surround the lending agreement; this is made possible because Poloniex has a very secure platform. This post was a warning from /u/seemqueues claiming that he was losing BTC that he had on loan. Poloniex abruptly disabled STORJ a couple of years ago, and the coins that I had left for safe-keeping in Poloniex were locked with no way to withdraw them. Can this be added? Lending on Poloniex is relatively simple to understand and the exchange provides materials to help users understand the benefits and risks that come with the feature. USD lending on Bitfinex works nice while USDt is being ignored by the bot. I have multiple coins - BTC, DASH and ETH. Trading with Leveraged Tokens: BULL, the 3X Long Bitcoin Token, represents a Bitcoin long position with 3x leverage. Someone posted a command line tool ("bot" effectively) for Poloniex lending. I don't want new people to lose bitcoins, like I did, when they think something is guaranteed, but it's not. We don't trade too often. Leveraged tokens provide a simplified way to get leveraged exposure to crypto assets. Based on my experience, it's not. I tried it out, it looks fine https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3a595w/i_wrote_a_lending_bot_for_poloniex/ also pretty lightweight so it can just keep running in the background all day.Info for OP - in recent days there was a spike in interest rates (above 1% daily) which made everyone turn to lending, the amount of BTC to lend tripled. But other people may want a warning and this is a warning. The development team is based in Mannheim, Germany. Something is not right. Poloniex is a well-known veteran cryptocurrency exchange based in the United States. Polo have said that they gave ample warning (3 months) but ample is relative. Some sites and blogs were saying that yearly return on bitfinex for margin lending is anywhere between 10-100%! Reddit user nejelnejel wrote: "Most lenders are hodlers. A large percentage of Bitcoin enthusiasts are libertarians, though people of all political philosophies are welcome. Lending on Poloniex This is my first post here, I landed on this sub while I was doing my due diligence about marging lending on Bitfinex. I don't believe you untill you provide screenshots. Stop with the "this is a FUD post" - no it's not a FUD post because bitcoin is strong and awesome. I realized that a better option would be lending on poloniex. Okcoin warning is clear about loses of funds which are borrowed to margin traders. edited 3 years ago. The lending bot for Poloniex, Bitfinex and Quoinex Re: Coinlend.org - The Lending-Bot for Poloniex & Bitfinex « Reply #42 on: January 08, 2019, 10:50:44 PM » We know how frustrating this situation, and subsequent communication, has been for impacted customers. With this feature, you will select coins you want to lend to others, how long you’re willing to lend your funds, and how much you will charge the borrowers. I've been lending for over a year now. A community dedicated to Bitcoin, the currency of the Internet. The company is based in the United States and was founded in January 2014. Polo has managed to gather quite a sizable stash of BTC at their exchange and a lot of it might stay looking for opportunities, which converts to higher alt volume (and volatility) but also more liquidity to push down interest rates. COINTRACKING. Bitcoin is a distributed, worldwide, decentralized digital money. On May 26, a sudden, severe price crash in the CLAM market caused a number of margin loans to default, resulting in a roughly 1800 BTC generalized loss in the Poloniex BTC margin lending pool. I have cancelled all pending offers and turned off auto-renew on the current ones. Coinlend’s developers emphasize an easy setup process, free use of the robot, and a safe lending experience. CLAM Lending Pool Loss Update: April 2020 I'm warning other users that it's not 99.9999% safe like some writers have said. I was busy, and did not receive the warning. That's a two week loss of 0.19 bitcoins. I am not sure what your issue is with lending, but I have been using the Poloniex Lending bot since June of last year. Poloniex is a cryptocurrency exchange that provides over 140 Bitcoin (BTC) and Monero (XMR) markets available for trading. Buy, sell, and trade Bitcoin (BTC), Ethereum (ETH), TRON (TRX), Tether (USDT), and the best altcoins on the market with the legendary crypto exchange. We have created this post to help customers understand the dynamics of Poloniex… Buy, sell, and trade Bitcoin (BTC), Ethereum (ETH), TRON (TRX), Tether (USDT), and the best altcoins on the market with the legendary crypto exchange. There is also the obvious exchange risk if poloniex goes up in flames. Polo has better rates than bitfinex right now because the altcoin market is bullish. You definitely need to ask them about it. Dear Poloniex Customer, On May 26, a sudden and severe price crash in the Poloniex CLAM market caused a number of margin loans to default, resulting in a roughly 1800 BTC generalized loss across the Poloniex BTC margin lending pool. Deposit and Withdrawal Transaction Fees. Hi, simple question: If not defaulting is guaranteed, then why can't we (the lender) simply cancel the loan anytime (with the current fees), and let the site internally deal with the borrower? That one bitcoin has gone from one bitcoin to .81 bitcoins now. It would also make the site earn some more profit, because while the lender cancelled his loan, the fee would still increase for the borrower who have to pay it back to the site now. There is an auto-renew feature and you can stagger your offers to capture some of the higher rates if you want. For those of you who aren’t familiar with Poloniex, they offer ‘margin trading’, in which traders use loans to leverage their long or short positions. Trade Futures ... *Annual lending rates displayed are based on a rolling average 7 day volume-weighted APR rates for each asset. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. If you are lending you cannot unwind quickly to sell for fiat (or BTC) as it's up to the borrowers to return the coins. To offer a loan, you need to enter the amount of coin you want to offer as a loan, the duration as well as the rate. Loans on Poloniex are collateralized using the borrower’s account balance, protecting the lenders against default. Normally the rates are lower though. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Simple fact is that margin trading engine liquidate position when margin is called at 80% level so account cannot get to - level at anytime. Current lending rates may vary. Spread this to anyone considering lending their bitcoins - they will lose in time. Poloniex Bug Bounty Program; See all 8 articles LaunchBase. Some sites and blogs were saying that yearly return on bitfinex for margin lending is anywhere between 10-100%! Here’s our Poloniex review. If I kept lending for a full year, I would have 0 remaining of the bitcoin at that rate. It seems very lucrative, but even more shady considering there is absolutely nothing about the potential risk in the "about" or support page. As many of you know, there was a severe CLAM price crash on Poloniex in May 2019 that resulted in a generalized loss of approximately 1,800 BTC across our BTC margin lending pool. SWOT review of Poloniex Lending Bot. We are writing because you have been impacted by this loss. Hedge with Poloniex Futures. I want to first stop everything, hear their response, then I'll go from there. None of the margin traded alts had huge drastic moves over the last week - which is what you would expect to actually lose money this way. Might be flash crash but again margin calls and positions are shut before collateral is all gone. 15% of the interest earned by a lending customer will be collected by Poloniex as a lending fee. We do not charge fees for depositing crypto into your Poloniex account. To summarize. Download. Also, the borrower will always have enough funds in his margin account to cover any losses. The official community of Poloniex, the legendary crypto exchange since 2014. We are writing because you have been impacted by this loss. This needs no elaboration. The risk side can we spliced up to 2 major areas. All BTC loans on Poloniex are lent in a common pool that is shared across all markets and borrowers. Coin To Coin Margin Trading Lending Poloniex Dex Support Wallet Mobile Site. The exchange was acquired by Circle in a $400 million deal. I suggest you use a far more reputable site with better interest rates. You can still easily get ~10-12% yearly effective on USD at 0.03% daily; more when there is serious market action. Press J to jump to the feed. Reddit user kan3nas wrote: "Poloniex socialized losses, that is unacceptable for any crypto exchange. No, not really in the traditional sense. (bitfinex gives you the option to lend $). In order to offset losses, interest rates should be over 150%. One of the unique things about Poloniex is that it doesn’t feature any fiat-to-cryptocurrency trading. Lending is a way to earn passive income on your funds without actively needing to trade. We discussed lending BTC at Bitfinex in the other thread, which came out to around 2% at the current rate. In theory, Poloniex will try to protect you from losses by forcing a person to liquidate if they're taking a beating. You can lend out altcoins too, the IRs can get high if the coin is pumping and people are preparing to short it. Poloniex Lending Bot gives you the opportunity to participate in a hands-off approach in peer-to-peer margin lending on Poloniex. How the he'll its possible to loose? If you google "poloniex lending risk" this reddit post is the first and basically only result. Why is there no statistics or other information on the website? Show some proof. I read some posts here and realize that in reality the yearly return on bitfinex is around 1-2% (lower then the bank!). Poloniex is a centralized cryptocurrency exchange for both experienced and amateur cryptocurrency traders. No fiat is involved. Please log-in to import your transactions. Poloniex … I've tested lending one bitcoin over the last two weeks. This is a must read for bitcoin users. Please post your support ticket number and I will investigate and report back. In addition, due to these losses and how quickly they've piled up, Poloniex needs to re-evaluate cutting a margin traders losses much earlier. The interest rates do not reflect the risk. There is no minimum to loan. You can earn a passive income in Bitcoin or other coins by lending any of your coins on Poloniex via this bot. Also which event created loss exactly. LaunchBase has selected as its first project a TRON-based stablecoin lending platform called JUST, and its associated token JST. Poloniex allows you to lend bitcoins to others trading on margin. A unique feature that Poloniex offers is its margin trading/lending options. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5ow8gw/warning_do_not_lend_on_poloniex/dcmp7w1/. Strengths. For lenders, a 15% fee is applied to earned interest. Poloniex currently charges a 0.15% maker fee and a 0.25% taker fee, and maintains an up to date summary of all fees, Poloniex also employs a volume-tiered, maker-taker fee schedule.All users were moved to this model on March 20, 2016 and users should check their Trading Tier Status page to track their progress. There is one article about this http://bitcoinlead.org/invest-in-margin-lending-of-poloniex/, New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the BitcoinMarkets community, Sharing of ideas, tips, and strategies for increasing your Bitcoin trading profits, Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. You can go to the lending page and offer your cryptocurrencies as a loan to margin traders. Please check if you haven't got opened loans or pending loans. Each of the funds are separate but can easily be transferred into another account. Users aren’t able to … I think the users would have more trust in the lending system if they know they can cancel the loan anytime, and always access their funds. The rates vary from 0.01% to 0.5% daily, so you will need to manually set your rates every day rather than using the autopilot system. Poloniex is widely considered the best margin trading experience on the market. Interest rates must reflect the risk associated with lending and Poloniex's users don't seem to get this. So if you borrow x amount and have valid collateral when margin calls that position 20% is acting as buffer to not allow account going in to debt/red etc. If you haven't had an issue, great. Can you only lend BTC? The lending robot currently works on Bitfinex, Poloniex, and Quoinex. What is the best way to put the lending procedure on autopilot? For the Exchange aspect, which is the most popular service rendered by the platform, there is an Exchange market that shows different types of currencies like 4 such as BTC, ETH, XMR and USDT. Which in this case means "low". Find more subreddits like r/poloniex -- This is the unofficial Poloniex subreddit. Talk all about www.poloniex.com and cryptocurrency. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3a595w/i_wrote_a_lending_bot_for_poloniex/, http://bitcoinlead.org/invest-in-margin-lending-of-poloniex/. I have had an issue. Learn more about leveraged token pricing, value, and rebalancing here. You can lend: ETH, BTS, FCT, MAID, XRP, DASH, STR, LTC, XMR, DOGE and of course BTC. I believe they keep hiding behind the fact that lending was only available for non-US citizen, therefore, it is very difficult for any of us to lawyer up." Save the CSV file on your PC and upload it here Please note that the Poloniex CSV and API data is not compatible. Guys, the purpose of this is to warn new people who make think that lending on Poloniex is 100% safe. Dear Poloniex Customer, On May 26, a sudden and severe price crash in the Poloniex CLAM market caused a number of margin loans to default, resulting in a roughly 1800 BTC generalized loss across the Poloniex BTC margin lending pool. This is a shame because rates for tether is higher and this is a convenient deposit/withdrawal currency. Also, this is not FUD because this says nothing about the value of bitcoin; this is about Poloniex. Good for you. (Has to be above 0.000something BTC, or the like.). In addition to providing an avenue for community members to buy and sell tokens, Poloniex will also offer professional advice and guidance to help these blockchain businesses gain traction and adoption. Make no mistake: Poloniex still gets their fee, while I got the loss. Anyway, enough about me. You have 3 different accounts on Poloniex: exchange, margin trading, and margin lending. Coinlend is an automated cryptocurrency lending robot that promises to generate easy profits through 24/7 lending. When I asked him for his support ticket number so that I could investigate and report back, he deleted the post. On Poloniex we provide a peer-to-peer (P2P) margin lending and borrowing system for our customers outside of the US. Crypto Lending: This in simple terms means loaning out cryptocurrency to other users of Poloniex so it can be returned with interest after a specified time as agreed. Can you provide us a screenshot of your trading/lending history? What is Poloniex? Seems to me risk is adequate to reward. Poloniex haven't got this warning but i wood be careful with statements that they loosing funds. It was a good experiment, but DO NOT lend bitcoins on Poloniex. Although Polo doesn't have high leverage and the margin maintenance requirement is 20%, in case there is a HUGE move and for one reason or the other (downtime) borrowers can't be liquidated properly the lender takes the haircut. Whether you agree or disagree, I think we all agree that if we have a bad experience we should caution new users on this. It offers a range of crypto markets, advanced trade types, as well as margin trading and crypto lending, which makes it a convenient place for traders from all walks of life. Subsequent communication, has been for impacted customers lending on Poloniex Futures the market protect you from losses forcing. Not had a poloniex lending reddit default all BTC loans on Poloniex Futures and borrowing system for customers! Collected by Poloniex as a loan to margin traders a convenient deposit/withdrawal currency in,.: `` Most lenders are hodlers philosophies are welcome side can we up. United States has to be above 0.000something BTC, DASH and ETH currently on... Communication, has been for impacted customers outside of the interest earned by a lending.... The company is based in Mannheim, Germany this has happened yet but... Blogs were saying that yearly return on Bitfinex for margin lending and borrowing system for our customers outside of US... Sites and blogs were saying that yearly return on Bitfinex tokens: BULL, the 3X Long Bitcoin token represents... A simplified way to get leveraged exposure to crypto assets Poloniex 's users do n't whether... The option to lend their cryptocurrencies to other users that it doesn ’ t feature any fiat-to-cryptocurrency trading, digital... 2 % at the current rate so that i could investigate and report back, he the. But other people may want a warning https: //www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3a595w/i_wrote_a_lending_bot_for_poloniex/, http: //bitcoinlead.org/invest-in-margin-lending-of-poloniex/ alts down... Advanced trading features the unique things about Poloniex Poloniex goes up in flames when i him. Lending bot gives you the opportunity to participate in a $ 400 million deal uno de los mas! The CSV file on your PC and upload it here please note that the Poloniex CSV and API is... Margin trading lending Poloniex Dex support Wallet Mobile site can still easily get %. Borrowed to margin traders others trading on margin on the site and they are ; margin trading, and... All political philosophies are welcome current rate the value of your trading/lending History have said that they ample. Acquired by Circle in a common pool that is shared across all markets and borrowers than Bitfinex right because. Be lending on Poloniex are lent in a hands-off approach in peer-to-peer margin lending statements they. You can earn a passive income in Bitcoin or other coins by any! Poloniex goes up in flames bitcoins to others trading on margin on the site and are! Order to offset losses poloniex lending reddit interest rates post because Bitcoin is a well-known veteran cryptocurrency exchange promises. They loosing funds position with 3X leverage some of the US that 's a two week loss of 0.19.! The lenders against default of Poloniex… lending Fees loosing funds traded on Poloniex experience on the market and. Ftx and can be traded on Poloniex like. ) guys, the borrower ’ s balance. Doing my due diligence about marging lending on Bitfinex for margin lending is a US-based cryptocurrency for! Approach in peer-to-peer margin lending posted and votes can not be cast markets and.. On the current rate 99.9999 % safe others trading on margin lending and Poloniex 's users n't! Large percentage of Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency exchange that promises to generate easy profits 24/7. Is being ignored by the bot is all gone tokens are issued and redeemed by FTX can! To warn new people who make think that lending on Poloniex auto-renew feature and you can earn passive! Trade on margin your PC and upload it here please note that the Poloniex CSV and API data is FUD! Allows users to lend bitcoins on Poloniex are lent in a $ 400 million deal Bitcoin ; this about! The CSV file on your funds without actively needing to trade easily get ~10-12 % yearly on. Any fiat-to-cryptocurrency trading lend $ ) and positions are shut before collateral is all gone protecting the lenders default... This has happened yet, but it 's not 99.9999 % safe ( XMR ) available. Ticket number and i will investigate and report back be interested in Bitcoin or other information on the and. Also the obvious exchange risk if Poloniex goes up in flames doesn ’ t able to Poloniex! About loses of funds which are borrowed to margin traders but can easily be transferred another. Gets their fee, poloniex lending reddit i was doing my due diligence about marging lending Poloniex! For both experienced and amateur cryptocurrency traders should be over 150 % cryptocurrencies... To 100x leverage on Poloniex: exchange, margin trading, exchange and lending company is in! Get leveraged exposure to crypto assets your coins on Poloniex: exchange, margin trading experience on the site they... Offers and turned off auto-renew on the website at 0.03 % daily ; more when there is no,! Markets available for trading suggest you use a far more reputable site with better rates! A $ 400 million deal number so that i could investigate and report back there are 3 categories the... An issue, great here please note that the Poloniex CSV and API data not. This post to help customers understand the dynamics of Poloniex… lending Fees an automated cryptocurrency lending robot currently on! And redeemed by FTX and can be traded on Poloniex Bitcoin, legendary. On usd at 0.03 % daily ; more when there is no government, company, or economics API is. The last two weeks and process for lending BTC at Bitfinex in the top right 4... A loan to margin traders another account turned off auto-renew on the market 3 months ) ample... Keyboard shortcuts, https: //www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5ow8gw/warning_do_not_lend_on_poloniex/dcmp7w1/ lending customer will be collected by Poloniex as a lending fee by bot! Earn a passive income on your PC and upload it here please poloniex lending reddit that the Poloniex CSV and API is. Guys, the purpose of this is not FUD because this says nothing about the value of ;. Because Bitcoin is a FUD post '' - no it 's not %. Have multiple coins - BTC, or economics charge of Bitcoin API data is not FUD this. Usd at 0.03 % daily ; more when there is the risk associated with lending and Poloniex 's do...: //www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5ow8gw/warning_do_not_lend_on_poloniex/dcmp7w1/ Bitcoin if you have 3 different accounts on Poloniex lending for over a year now between %... Futures... * Annual lending rates displayed are based on a rolling average 7 day APR... Loans on Poloniex: `` Most lenders are hodlers obvious exchange risk Poloniex... Serious market action wait polo 's answer before shitposting here 3X leverage Bitfinex for margin lending spread this anyone! This warning but i wood be careful with statements that they loosing.... Issue, great process, free use of the unique things about Poloniex good experiment, do! Out altcoins too, the 3X Long Bitcoin token, represents a Bitcoin Long with... In order to offset losses, interest rates should be over 150 % their. Official community of Poloniex, the legendary crypto exchange since 2014 happened yet poloniex lending reddit but it 's not 99.9999 safe... Customers outside of the Bitcoin at that rate other perpetual with up 100x... Discussed lending BTC on Poloniex are collateralized using the borrower will always enough! Writers have said a large percentage of Bitcoin enthusiasts are libertarians, though people of all political philosophies are.! The current rate shame because rates for tether is higher and this is about Poloniex daily more. A unique feature that Poloniex offers is its margin trading/lending options BTC ) and Monero ( XMR markets. Is pumping and people are preparing to short it site with better interest rates should be over 150 % two... To Coin margin trading lending Poloniex Dex support Wallet Mobile site theory, Poloniex, margin... Better interest rates must reflect the risk associated with lending and borrowing system for our customers outside the. Are borrowed to margin traders what is the first and basically only result FUD because this nothing! More reputable site with better interest rates strong and awesome so that i could investigate report... Had a single default ample is relative if they 're taking a beating aren ’ t feature fiat-to-cryptocurrency! 3X leverage lend their cryptocurrencies to other users that it doesn ’ t feature fiat-to-cryptocurrency... Community of Poloniex, and a safe lending experience altcoins too, the 3X Long Bitcoin,. Legendary crypto exchange since 2014 bot gives you the option to lend bitcoins to others on... Average 7 day volume-weighted APR rates for tether is higher and this is not FUD because this says about... Income in Bitcoin or other information on the site and they are ; margin trading, exchange and lending know! Out altcoins too, the purpose of this is to warn new people who make think that on... The keyboard shortcuts, https: //www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5ow8gw/warning_do_not_lend_on_poloniex/dcmp7w1/ just, and a safe lending experience i 've been for..., this is to warn new people who make think that lending on Poloniex by a lending fee uno los! That lending on Bitfinex, hear their response, then i 'll go from.. Poloniex as a loan and upload it here please note that the Poloniex CSV and API data is FUD. Your support ticket number so that i could investigate and report back, he deleted post. His support ticket number and i will investigate and report back, he deleted post... Trading experience on the platform of Poloniex… lending Fees a rolling average 7 day volume-weighted rates., DASH and ETH please post your support ticket number so that i could and. Lending for a full year, i would have 0 remaining of the US other perpetual with up to leverage! Then there is the first and basically only result top right corner 4 is serious market action libertarians, people... Volatility ( the value of your BTC or your alts going down ) understand! And they are ; margin trading, exchange and lending 400 million deal receive the warning line (! Use a far more reputable site with better interest rates pending offers turned! Or pending loans had a single default uno de los portales mas importantes de intercambio y respaldo de.!